Break the Conflict Cycle In Your Marriage w/ Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo

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[00:00:27] Now, we had Tony on a few episodes ago. It actually was my first interview here on raising the standard where we discussed this book, the Six Pillars of Intimacy. This was a phenomenal discussion that I'm gonna link below. It's a powerful discussion, and it's e. An even more powerful book. If you want to have a marriage that thrives, you have to be familiar with how to build these six pillars into your life.

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[00:01:17] To thriving. There's a huge impact on your marriage and your life if you have unresolved conflict. So in today's episode, you will get equipped with tools, strategies, and tactics that you can apply starting today. Let's get into it. This is raising the standard leadership mindset and development for the ambitious Christian man.

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[00:02:03] If you've been listening to the show for a while, you'll know that my very first interview was with Tony de Lorenzo from One Extraordinary Marriage, and today we have a great treat because Alisa, his wife, is joining him today for this interview around their new book, which is a really important topic for all couples, for all men that are listening.

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[00:02:39] So Tony and Elisa, I'd like to welcome you to the show today. Thanks for joining. Well, thank you for

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[00:02:45] Tony DiLorenzo: Yeah. Thanks so much, Josh. And. I'm honored, man. I was the first, I was the first interview you had, and I don't know how many more you've done, but I, I loved doing my, I, I listened to the podcast, man, so thank you for what you do.

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[00:02:56] Josh Khachadourian: man, I'm honored. It's, it was an amazing conversation. I'm holding the book right here. Like, this book is amazing. It's still a go-to. Um, so all, for all the listeners, go check out the episode with Tony. I'll drop the first episode we recorded in the show notes. But the six pillars of intimacy is a must.

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[00:03:37] Just for you to give us an overview for any new listeners. Absolutely.

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[00:03:53] And you know, not only do we do that through the podcast, but I do that through coaching as well. Really getting into the, getting into the nitty gritty with individuals and couples to help them have the breakthrough and to identify those areas that need to be addressed so they can create the extraordinary.

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[00:04:23] I just wanna say that it's an investment to do a podcast. Like you usually put your own money out there to get your message across, so, That I don't take that lightly. That's, I just wanna honor you guys for pouring into marriages because when you do a podcast, you don't get anything in return. You don't even get feedback sometimes other than if someone leaves a review.

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[00:05:02] Were there giving and pouring into couples because this truly is a mission and it's a vision that's in your heart. So I wanna thank you for that. Oh,

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[00:05:10] Josh Khachadourian: a lot. Yeah. That's a big deal. So, Alisa, I'm holding your book in my hand. This is the, the latest one.

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[00:05:33] Alisa DiLorenzo: Yeah. The six pillars, like, you know, you held up the first book and that really is the framework.

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[00:05:56] Being able to. Do conflict well in a marriage is a skill. It's not something that you're inherently born with. It's not something that only other couples have. It is something that can be developed. So we'll have the skill-based books, and then we'll also have books going towards a certain population. So the next book in the series will be a book all around the six pillars of intimacy for empty nesters.

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[00:06:32] Josh Khachadourian: Excellent. Now, Tony, I'll ask you this before we even jump in. To this conversation, it's probably important that we just do a quick review on the six pillars. Can you just name the six pillars for us for those listening? You don't have to describe them all, but just so people have a framework Yeah. Of where we're coming from.

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[00:06:49] Tony DiLorenzo: emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, which is your non-sexual touch, financial intimacy, spiritual intimacy, recreational intimacy, and lastly, your sexual intimacy.

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[00:07:08] Absolutely. So that leads us into conflict resolution. So Alisa, you said you've been coaching quite a while, so I know you have the podcast, you have courses, you have a lot of different things you do at conferences and seminars and teachings, but you also do coaching. Is this. Was this book born out of your coaching experiences and being in the trenches with couples?

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[00:07:47] He doesn't listen to me, she doesn't listen to me, whatever it might be. And so I've spent thousands upon thousands of hours working with couples to help them understand not only how they do conflict, which I identify in the book as a conflict cycle, but also what they can do. And how they can do it differently so that they can shorten that time and actually move more towards resolution instead of just, you know, sweeping things under the rug and going, eh, well, you know what, I'll just walk away from it until next time.

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[00:08:31] Alisa DiLorenzo: marriage? First of all, I don't think there's anything, any such thing as a perfect marriage.

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[00:08:53] And there should be healthy discussion and even the ability to have a difference of opinion in a marriage and work through that. So the idea behind this book and understanding the conflict cycle is that you can move through it faster and it does less damage when there is a difference of opinion. When there is conflict, it does less damage to

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[00:09:12] And so I did start by asking you, have you seen this in other marriages? And obviously the answer's yes, um, but I'm assuming. You don't see this in your own marriage, Tony, is that true or did you guys experience this yourself?

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[00:09:27] Tony DiLorenzo: I, I am perfect.

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[00:09:48] Mm-hmm. And so we have had arguments on the podcast. We still have differences of opinion that we even work through while we're on the podcast talking about a certain topic. And so I think for Alisa and I, what we have learned in our own marriage, when we look at our conflict cycle when we were young, marriage, even in our, you know, 10 and in those teen years, Our conflict cycle was elongated.

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[00:10:33] Josh Khachadourian: own.

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[00:10:56] It's probably, you know, obviously the people you're working with, El Elisa, I'm sure it comes from one spouse because obviously one spouse is motivated to speak with you. But, um, what's at stake if we don't address this? Ultimately,

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[00:11:23] You know, there's a reason that divorces can be filed under irreconcilable differences. My translation of irreconcilable differences is conflicts We couldn't figure out how to resolve. Mm-hmm. And we just got tired. You know, those couples just get tired of it and they're like, you know what? I don't need this.

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[00:11:42] Josh Khachadourian: out. Yeah, so, so what's the prerequisite if someone's approaching this book, this conversation, even listening to this podcast, what's the one thing they have to be willing to do if they, if they wanna work through something?

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[00:12:04] Alisa DiLorenzo: this. I, I would say the prerequisite is, you've gotta be willing to look at yourself first. So often when couples are in conflict, it's very easy to look at your spouse and be like, well, if you said this, or if you did this differently, or if you didn't do this, and, and we can be very externally focused.

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[00:12:39] And so the prerequisite a hundred percent is that you've gotta be willing to look at the person in the mirror and say, what can I do?

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[00:12:54] So we always say that all men are created to be leaders, but not all men are leading. And that always starts with looking in the mirror first. Mm-hmm. So this resonates with me so much. It's so powerful. Because for any guys that are listening where you're complaining about your circumstances, you got an orphan mentality, victim thinking, or you're saying she'll never change, my circumstance will never change.

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[00:13:31] I think the

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[00:14:01] And if I am gonna step into who God has called me to be, then I'm gonna develop skills that are gonna allow me to have the extraordinary marriage I desire. And so what I tell many of my guys is even around communication, emotional intimacy, for instance, I didn't always talk this way. It's a skilled development.

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[00:14:38] And know that it can take time. Just as you know, you lift and I lift and. We don't go to the gym the first time and, and like are like, oh, I got my, my biceps in my chest. No, it's a process, right? We go day after day or week after week, month after month to get the gains.

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[00:14:59] So let's, let's get right into it. That was really well said, Tony. Um, so what causes conflict? Maybe we can start there. Like what's the root issues? Where does it come from? And then we can talk about the responses. And I want you to break down what the cycle looks for us, but what's, what's the origin?

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[00:15:18] You know, we, we see the world differently. We get into a place where, you know, there's an emotional charge to those differences and we don't know what to do with it. And so that becomes conflict, right? And, and in looking at that and being able to go. And I say it in the book that conflict issues can either be a landmine or a goldmine.

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[00:15:57] You might not know that the kids have just been running crazy all day long. You just are met with this conflict and you're just like, I'm gonna blow it up. Instead of saying, Hey, wait a minute, something's going on here. What's actually behind this? Because all anger is, is a presentation of some other emotion that needs to be dealt with, that needs to be addressed.

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[00:16:28] Josh Khachadourian: marriage. I love that quote. Um, it's either a landmine or a gold mine.

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[00:16:46] My question is, um, when we start, when, when a couple comes together and they're married, there's usually, at least what I've seen from my own experience, um, being vulnerable here. There's some root issues in the marriage and then they show up as little things like you even had something in your cycle where even something little can accelerate really quick, like a boiling pointer.

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[00:17:25] That causes the conflict. And I guess I'm, I'm asking for your commentary and is this true? Is once that, once that issue's there, can it show up in different ways and express itself in different forms of conflict, but it's still. Going back to a rude issue a hundred percent.

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[00:17:46] And so if you know, there's, and, and it doesn't even have to be trauma with like a capital T, it can be trauma with little ties. It can be the way you saw your parents fight, it can be the messaging that you've heard about certain topics that you've just, you've internalized that. And so those show up. In how the two of you relate to one another, and you might just, I tell people all the time, when you find those cycles repeating, we're always fighting about the same things, or it's always, you know, this dance that we do well, there's a cycle there that needs to be addressed and you do yourself and your marriage a favor.

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[00:18:39] And what I love about your particular podcast is, you know, if Jesus is the focus and, and if that's the standard, you know, then what does it look like to step into that healing with Jesus. Mm-hmm. And to know that you're not trying to do it on your own. Like you don't have to be a man that's gotta like white knuckle it and go, I just gotta get through this.

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[00:19:11] Josh Khachadourian: So in the book you talk about, and I'm really interested in what you see, there's different responses when a conflict arises.

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[00:19:38] Um, I'll tell you mine, um, but as Elisa breaks this down, I want you guys that are listening to think about. Which response is maybe your go-to? We probably dance through all four of them a little bit based on the situation. Maybe I'll let you tell me, Elisa, but I, I noticed that there's certain conflicts where I have a similar response or there's something I do.

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[00:20:03] Alisa DiLorenzo: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this was a really interesting thing for me, even in doing the research around this book, because we're so used to hearing about fight or flight, right? Those are the two most common responses. Those are the ones that everybody knows.

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[00:20:26] Like, why, why are you leaving? Um, the fight is that very aggressive. Like, no, we're gonna, we're gonna work this out. We gotta solve this right now. And it, it can be that loud, those bursts of anger. The other two, and these are a little less known, but surprisingly, one of them shows up in our own marriage, in me.

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[00:20:59] And this one was really interesting to me to, to learn because I've seen it in different dynamics. And this is like the people pleaser. This is the response that says, I will just tell you whatever I, you know, whatever's gonna make it all good. So the conflict will go away, right? Like I, I will, I will say whatever.

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[00:21:29] Yeah. So which one for you?

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[00:21:32] Tony DiLorenzo: Which one for me? Uh, mine is the fight. I want to get, I want to get it out, I want to get it done, and I wanna move forward. And like Elisa said, she's more the freeze. And we'll just shut down and just sit there. And so early on in our marriage, this was brutal because we didn't understand what was going on.

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[00:22:17] We know I'm gonna get more, I'm gonna get more animated. It's not necessarily that my voice is gonna raise to a decibel, that's unbearable, but I do get more animated. My hands are gonna fly. I am moving around a bit more. Um, your

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[00:22:33] Tony DiLorenzo: sharper.

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[00:22:33] He will, yeah. And I immediately, you know, Tony used to call me his California power outage. Yes. Because I would immediately just power down. You could like, There could be all kinds of life going on around me, and I'm literally sitting there completely stoic. Nothing's happening. It looks like an iceberg.

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[00:22:49] Tony DiLorenzo: But what I've learned over the years is for Elisa, she's a, she's a processor as well. And so what I am saying, she is processing and it just takes her time though to process all the feelings, the emotions. Mm-hmm. What's being said, what's the problem, what are the solutions? And so understanding that about both of us has allowed us to break our own conflict cycle.

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[00:23:23] Josh Khachadourian: Yeah. So how has that evolved, Tony? Do you still find like the fight is still there because there's still an emotion, but maybe it just doesn't manifest or express itself the same exact way?

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[00:23:59] Mm-hmm. So it's not like it needs to get done now, like. Fighter in me before would be like, no, this needs to be resolved now. Now the fighter in me is like, I'm gonna release this knowing that you need to process mm-hmm. For a few hours, for 24 hours, and know that you're gonna come back and we are gonna address the issue and then come up with a

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[00:24:21] So a lot of self-awareness, self-regulation to take a step back, um, and also to recognize the way Elisa processes to give her space. Okay. And Alisa, how, how, you know, just to ask like how's it evolved for you? So if you were the person and you fall into like the freeze, Um, is that still there to a degree?

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[00:24:52] Alisa DiLorenzo: I, I think some of those responses are just innate responses. They're default, they've been with us since childhood, you know, and so it is learning to control them.

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[00:25:21] Like I'm, I'm present in that moment to go. Yes. Because it helps Tony and ultimately helps me if I can maintain the conversation, if I can maintain eye contact. Because for years, Josh, when we were in conf, like my eyes would go down and there would be no conf or no eye contact for days. And so what I want everyone listening to this podcast to understand is just because you've always been some way doesn't mean you can't learn new behaviors.

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[00:26:04] Is likely, you know, whether you're fighting or fleeing or freezing. That's what you need to be aware of.

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[00:26:26] It's like a measure of compromise to meet my spouse, to meet my partner. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And make space for them. So it's awesome. Um,

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[00:26:47] We're not boxers. I'm not the defensive line, and she's a quarterback and I need to sack her. And so when we sh, when we. When we change that perspective and when we began to change that perspective, conflict changed as well because it's a problem that we need to address not one another, and we're gonna come up with a solution.

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[00:27:24] Change the perspective. We are on the same team. There's a problem. We're gonna come up with the

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[00:27:40] That's flight that's shutdown. Um, so everything I'm thinking of fits under these. And one of 'em is, you know, the people pleaser. And I think that. That could actually, there's probably a behavior that looks like people pleasing, but it's really fighting cuz it's like, yeah, sure, whatever. Fine, we'll do it your way.

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[00:28:12] Like we all deal with conflict, every single human, and you deal with it a certain way. So let's just take the workplace, for example. And in the workplace, what I find is that a lot of people are people pleasers. Like that might be one of their go-tos. Like, okay, fine, I'll just, I gotta do this. Maybe it's, uh, you know, it's a boss employee relationship, sub relationship.

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[00:29:00] And I even see it with my kids. Like, you know, if my son explodes or something happens, I'm just like, Hey buddy. You know, tell me what's going on, like, what happened today. Cause I, I know that whatever just happened that wasn't enough to make someone react that way. So there's something else behind it. And, um, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

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[00:29:23] Alisa DiLorenzo: Absolutely. Because, you know, Interactions. Literally from the moment you wake up in the morning till you go to bed at night, you are having interactions that can be conflict, um, conflict situations. And you're correct.

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[00:29:51] And it is getting to this place of saying, you know, what does that look like when I bring this home? And if I'm not explaining to my spouse what the root is that given day of, you know what, this is what I'm dealing with, then we don't allow that emotional intimacy to actually be a point of connection in the marriage.

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[00:30:24] May like you just described with your son, maybe it's something that is happening that day or it's gone on and say, Hey, you know what, I hear your emotions. What else happened today? Like, we'll, we'll I, I totally wanna address this with you, but what happened today? What's been going on in your world that maybe I didn't know about?

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[00:30:47] with

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[00:31:07] So walk us through that, and I'd like to just have you break down a little bit of those pieces of the cycle as we go through it.

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[00:31:28] Mm-hmm. Right? And that's when you're aware. But you might not even be aware of what you're possibly even fighting about, right? It's just something happened. Then you begin into a place where it starts to escalate, where, you know, maybe the words are a little harsher, the body language is a little severe, and you know, almost the accusations start flying.

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[00:32:04] It feels like the point of no return. Um, if you're likely to flee and you're, you go into flight, then you're outta there. You're like, this is too much for me. I'm out. If you freeze, this is your shutdown. And if you're fun, this is where you are trying to be like, okay, okay. What? What am. Like, let's just, let's jump off right now.

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[00:32:36] And then the fifth stage is either resolution or return to status quo. And the reason that I put both of those on there in the cycle is that some couples at this point will actually work to create a solution and get to a place of resolution, but couples that don't have that emotional intimacy will often just return to status quo.

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[00:33:15] And that was intentional because you can choose, and we've been talking about this a lot, um, in today's episode, you can choose your behaviors. You can choose to react differently because it's not just what's happening between the two of you. It's also happening inside of you and you can control. And emotionally regulate.

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[00:33:38] Josh Khachadourian: So you don't have to be a slave to the cycle where you go through every step. You could stop it. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's awesome.

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[00:33:57] It could have started in the morning, but then you go off to work, you're gone for 10 hours. Conflict is still sort of there. Mm-hmm. And the escalation happens when you get back home and then, you know, and, and then it could, it could slow down again because all of a sudden it's dinner time. So we got the kids around, so it's escalating, but we haven't hit the boiling point.

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[00:34:38] Mm-hmm. So that cycle can happen in different

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[00:34:57] It seems like it's better now. It's been a few days, like it just gets swept under the rug, so to speak, and then you're just waiting for the next stick of dynamite and something blows up again.

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[00:35:16] It comes back into the argument. So it's the stuff you did last week and last month and last year. While I'm still bringing that forward cuz we haven't resolved it, we haven't healed from it. We just keep carrying our baggage and most people have, you know, not just one suitcase that they're not traveling with just a carry on.

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[00:35:57] Totally counter-cultural.

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[00:36:12] Alisa DiLorenzo: Yes. Realistically, there's going to be one spouse who really wants to work on it, and they're gonna read it first, and what they're likely to do is to then slide it across, put it on their spouse's nightstand, maybe leave it open to a particular page on the kitchen table, that type of thing.

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[00:36:54] And see what change you can make in becoming aware of your internal conflict cycle, your thoughts and your actions. Watch what you can affect and likely what starts to happen there. Cause I've seen this in my coaching clients, people like, why aren't you responding the same way? Mm-hmm. Why aren't you calmer?

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[00:37:17] Josh Khachadourian: ready. Yeah, well, I, I set you up for that cuz my next question, which you got to it was, you know, we're speaking mostly to men that listen to this show and if they have a willingness to change and they're already listening to this, so they're somewhat involved and interested in their own personal, their spiritual development, and they wanna be the best man they can be and the best husband they can be if their wife, if there's a source of conflict there, you're saying by just starting with this book and applying it to themselves, they can start to make a positive change.

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[00:38:03] They're gonna start to see, these men are gonna start to see their patterns and as they start to see what they're doing right, how does that impact the marriage? Right? Where do they see that they can take control? Or, um, as you were saying earlier, be that leader. Mm-hmm. Because they have a greater awareness.

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[00:38:23] Josh Khachadourian: Awesome. Well, I want to get all of your, we're gonna put all your links below underneath in the show notes so everyone can get the book so they can find out more about your podcast, your programs, and your coaching. Um, before I get that, before we get to that, and I'll have you speak to a few things that you do, Alisa.

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[00:38:59] Tony DiLorenzo: have power, and it took me many years to understand this, but our words have.

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[00:39:30] Mm-hmm. Um, and so I would be, Very much like spend the time, think about what's going on, what are the words you're using, even outside of conflict, right? What are the words you're speaking over your wife right now? Mm-hmm. Like, what, what are you saying to her? Like, and, and what are you doing? Because that will change how you're gonna work through that conflict cycle and choosing the, the words that are gonna allow you guys to get

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[00:39:56] That's really, really powerful. So I'm just gonna ask the listeners now to just do a self-audit and just listen to what you're saying and just take an inventory of how you speak to your children, how you speak to your wife, because, you know, we're, we're told in Genesis, you know, we're to, we're to provide, we're to protect as men.

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[00:40:31] Am I the catalyst for some of this behavior? And what have I done? So this is really an awesome conversation. Um, that was really, really good, Tony, to, to charge the men. With that, Alisa, I'm gonna ask you to. Close us out too. And before you do and give any of your last comments, can you just tell a little bit about the one family, um, how people can get involved, where they can connect with you, and then we'll drop all the links below.

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[00:40:55] Alisa DiLorenzo: one family is what we call our audience. You know, we've said from the very beginning, you know, family does life together and it's not always pretty. Again, kind of gets a little messy, but you hang in there for the long haul. That's very much what the one family is. You can find everything that we do@oneextraordinarymarriage.com.

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[00:41:26] I'm excited to see what happens as readers take this book and implement it into their lives.

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[00:41:45] Apply what you're learning in your marriage, in your relationships. And what I love about it is it's not one dimensional. You can use it in your marriage, you can use it. As I am going to do with my children and also with people that you work with. So every relationship can benefit and be enriched by the principles and the strategies that you outline here.

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[00:42:27] Then I want to invite you into the Unfair Advantage challenge. It's an 11 day email training content that I've never shared on this platform before, and I'm doing this because I want to equip you and teach you how to access the unfair advantage that God gives all men who are walking with him. But here's the thing, many men never access it.

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[00:43:08] Let's get after it.